Interview: Professor Beer explains...
Dame Gillian Beer was King Edward VII Professor of English Literature at the University of Cambridge, and President of Clare Hall, Cambridge. Among her works are "Darwin's Plots" and the World Classics edition of Darwin's "The Origin Of Species". ICONS talked to her about why she thinks Darwin's book was so significant when it was published, and why it is still troubling today...
Click on a question to hear Professor Beer's answer:
Before the Origin was published , had there been a consensus of opinion, or was there allready a debate raging?
There
certainly have been debates for a great many years about the degree to
which species might have changed or might have been introduced at
different times. Most of those ideas tended to go back to the idea that
there was an originating creator who might have intervened or that
things turned up, that was the looser form of it.
When you get
back as far as somebody like Pailey, he uses the argument that you
couldn't possibly have a watch without a designer so that by analogy,
you can't have a process of evolution without a design.
There were
people who had been arguing very much against this. For instance, The
anonymous Vestiges of Creation, which was one of the great popular
successes of the late 1840s, was also rubbished by scientists and by
others because, one thing was that it was anonymous so nobody knew if
this was by a scientist or not, the other really I think was because
the process it described was a process in which little fragments were
left over from some initial full vision, and this was a very
unsatisfying way of thinking about the present.
Another reason it
came to be seen as inadequate, and I think that Darwin saw it as
inadequate, was that it tended to think in terms of an upward movement
with humankind inevitably as the end product. That is it was still
based in the idea of a plan that would put man, and I say man
deliberately, because that was certainly not only the language,
but the implication at the centre of significance.
So, to that
degree, I think, yes, there were already a lot of people arguing, there
had been ideas about what were called developmentalism, but what Darwin
did was to bring in one completely new and important idea, which was
the procedure or the process by which these changes over millenia,
aeons, had taken place, and his argument that the process was natural
selection - and that was his naming of it - was, I think, a bold new
idea.
The theory was always problematic, though, wasn't it?
It
had in it all sorts of problems, of course, because as soon as
you say selection you get back to the same Pailian question of ok, so,
"if selection then who's the selector? Who or what is doing the
selecting?"
And that was a problem in the language that Darwin was
obliged to use because there wasn't a prepared language which ran along
the seam of what he wanted to say. Indeed, most of the dominant
discussion at the time, I think one could fairly say, had come out of
natural theology - that is it assumed questions like creation and
design as being part of a benignly ordered universe, and Darwin's
is a much darker, less ordered - well, one of his enemies said that it
was 'the law of higgledy-piggledy'.
The question of extinction is particularly...
I think the other thing that his theory necessitated, and it's still an
idea that we find very hard to cope with, is that extinction is as
fundamental as is new developement in evolutionary process.
We
all fight against the idea of species becoming extinct and an enormous
and proper effort is put into sustaining now rare species, but if one
reads with a sort of hard head what Darwin is saying he simply says
'this is how life goes' and that almost none of the past species of the
world are still current, and certainly none of those now current are
likely to survive into the distant future, including, of course,
although he never annunciates this, human kind.
That's what people object to, isn't it, that we are subject to the same doom as all those other things.
Yes,and that's where he differed from Wallace, because as we all now know
it's something that interests people very much - that Alfred
Russell Wallace, like Darwin, had this sudden insight, though he
actually had it about 20 years later than Darwin, that it must be this
process of according with your own environment, with your current
environment, that gave the possibility of having progeny, those progeny
surviving, and moving into future forms.
But
what he couldn't accept was that humankind was subject to all the same
laws as all other forms of life. He wanted to find an explanation for
soul, and so if you're going to sustain the idea of soul you have got
to find some kind of differentiation which will mean that human beings
run across different laws from every other species.
And I think Wallace
is a very admirable and imaginative worker and in some ways I think his
later life is a marvellous attempt to cope with that… that he becomes a
devoted socialist, he also becomes a devoted spiritualist, but he is
driven, certainly in spiritualism, to find some way out because of his
insistence that he's got to hold on to the idea that humankind is
subject to different laws and has this special feature called
soul.
Now Darwin, very quietly, was able
to do away with, or to do without, that distinction, and of course
that's why his theory is so much more disquieting than Wallace's - and
remains so, I think.
Was it that the theories of The Origin were contradictory to previous beliefs that were extremely powerful and hard to shift?
I think Darwin himself found it quiete hard to let go
of certain theistic assumptions - that is assumptions that there is a
central organising process, for example the way in which he always
talks about the single progenitor. And some people in the ten years
after he publishes The Origin, including GH Lewis's, said, well why
does he imagine that there's got to be a single place from which we all
came. Why could there not have been this chemical process going on all
over the world at the same time?
And they saw, I think quite astutely,
that this was partly because the habits of mind are so strong that we
all live in, in any particular era and the habit of mind of having as
it were an iniciating point or being, that Darwin… I wouldn't like to
adjudicate on whether that now is taken to be the fact. I mean now
people say that humankind came out of Africa, for instance,
But
nevertheless there is that worry for him: how to make room for some
kind of organising principle, even while he was emphasising the
chancey, the random, the mutational, and the fact that as sexed beings
our energies go towards differientiation - in that we are very
different to our species and a number of the primates from the kinds of
species that split ar replicate or have virgin birth and which
therefore always reproduce the parent type. What's striking and even
anomalous about our species, and a group of species like ours, is that
we tend recklessly towards individuation, and that does mean that you
get quite rapid diversification.
So Darwin is saying you
can't tell what is going to happen in the future, there are just too
many pathways, just too many, who knows? And that's quite an eerie
thought, so unteleological, so unplanned. And, of course, again he
tries to give it a more benign shape, I think, when he talks about it
as natural selection as opposed to artificial selection, which is, as
he sees it, the manmade selection, the artificial selection which is
like what farmers do, what pigeon fanciers do, what plant-rearers do.
That is, to do things for the benefit of mankind - not for the benefit
of those particular plants or animals, and that he calls artificial
selection, artifice.
Whereas natural selection, he says, is always
for the benefit of the kind itself. That is that it produces better,
more prepared, more advanced - and this is where he does move onto
shakey ground because in one of his notebooks he says 'never say higher
and lower about species,' but in The Origin, as a kind of comfort
speak, I think he sometimes does move into suggesting that we are all
moving onwards and upwards.
Unusually the book was read widely, not just by scientists. Why was this?
The Origin Of Species was quite extraordinarily
popular. Now Darwin of course himself had tried to write it as if not
as a popular book then certainly as a book that used ordinary language,
that didn't use a rhetoric which was only available to scientists, and
he saw it as really just a summary of the enormous book he had been
struggling to write over about 20 years which is now called the Big
Book which he never finished, because once Wallace had made it clear
that he had had the same fundamental ideas as Darwin about natural
selection, Darwin had to rush to write his version - and it took him 13
months and he simply sat at it.
So why was it so immediately
successful? Well I've already suggested that Vestiges of Creation had,
if not prepared the ground exactly for this had made people very
interested in this topic. But I think there was another reason which
goes back further, which is let's remember that the Voyage of the
Beagle, as we now call it , was also extremely popular and that when
that was pirated at the end of the 1830s and then went into a second
edition, this book made Darwin's name: it was that book that made
Darwin's name.
This I think is not sufficiently understood
when people say "Well why did everybody rush to read this, not just
scientists but people more broadly?" it was partly because Darwin was a
very well-known travel writer who had written this marvelously
stimulating and sensorarily rich book in his youth and then had written
a number of much more technical treatises since about cirripedes and
things like that - so now he was going to do this Big Book.
Meanwhile,
within the discussions among scientists thought had moved on, and
Darwin himself had been corresponding with Henslow, who had been his
mentor at Cambridge, and with Lyle, who had also been another one of
his great mentors, and with other influential friends so that it wasn't
that it broke onto the world without any other scientist being aware of
what was going on in Darwin's mind. He had been preparing the ground.
What effect did the public reaction have?
Well it's certainly striking that it sold out within
really a few days, the very first one, and that he produced a second
edition six weeks later which we would probably now call almost a
reprinting though it does, strikingly, in the second edition he
re-introduces the idea of the creator. So he has already had that very
first impact of the way in which people respond and perhaps been
alarmed by it and decided that, well, he could just for the time being
as it were reintroduce the idea of the creator.
He does it
right at the end. "There is granduer in this view of life with its
several powers having being originally breathed by the creator into a
few forms or into one." By the third edition he takes out again "by the
creator" and that kind of argument that is going on in his own
representation of his theory I think is one of the things that makes it
part of the general cultural argument of the time.
I don't think that
he is actually uncertain - except of course let us remember that Darwin
said that he was not writing about the origin of life, he was writing
about the process of differentiation by which species came into being.
And when people say he said that at the start this is what
happened, that's not quite true. He quite deliberately leaves
aside the question of the origin of life.
So these are some of the
ways in which I feel that he spoke to a much larger public, and then
let's remember the other person who is crucial to the process of
dissemination which is Huxley. Wheras Darwin was a rather
diffident person in terms of confrontation, he didn't like that,
Huxley really enjoyed it and that's why he becomes Darwin's bulldog -
he's the person who goes out into the arena of public debate, and it's
he who brings in the challenge by re-introducing the question of
mankind: where does humankind stand in all this?
Darwin, as he put
it diplomatically, eschewed any discussion really of human beings in
The Origin and he thought that by doing that he was making it less
controversial, he would always talk about the higher species, something
like that. Only in the conclusion where he says he sees open fields for
further enquiry and the psychology of man, that's where mankind gets
back in. But Huxley writes man's place in nature, which is all about
these questions of where humankind fits into the natural world, 1863,
so four years after The Origin it's straight back in there.
Is there a common misunderstanding today that it's not about species but about The Species, about humanity?
I think there's still a big gap between people who
work, say, in genetics for whom this theory is fundamental and can be
taken for granted -that is, the process of natural selection in
producing differentiation.
And we have to remember that Darwin was
writing The Origin before there was a language for genetics, so that he
himself is deeply puzzled and can't find satisfactory solutions. He
comes up with this idea that he calls "gemules", which was an attempt
to describe how characteristics are carried from generation to
generation but that's long since been abandoned. Nevertheless, with the
development of genetics in the 20th century it seems to be an
incontestable and crucial tool for interpretation for scientists
working in these fields and that all their results seem to confirm the
propriety, the rightness of this interpretation.
But
for most people I think it is partly that the word evolution is a word
that has become current in so many different fields and can tell so
many different stories, and one sees that from the start with Darwin's
own work that it can be a story about the rise of humanity or the fall
of humanity, it can be something that privileges socialism or Nazism,
unhappily. It can be used politically in so many diverse ways.
It
also has had some very curious cross-fertilizations. For a long time
there was this idea that music, for instance, became more complex and
therefore better, and the early music movement of the last 20-30 years
has been an attempt to move back from that misappropriation of
the idea of evolution as implying always bettering. And one
sees this over and over again, the evolution of tax law - the word is
all over the place.
So I think people are quite
understandably very confused about what in fact evolution signifies
because it has come to signify so many things, and on the whole I
suppose it signifies a process and for a lot of people a process of
making things more complex and making better. I think one can certainly
say that in a number of instances Darwin thought it made more complex,
though he was careful to say that it need not do so as there are
some forms that are very simple and that have survived in their
simplicity.
What it doesn't guarantee is betterment, and that I
think is still the troubling thought - to have complexity without plan
is a very troubling thought. And to have a process of greater and
greater complexification without anybody or anything overseeing it…
it's the same sort of thing that people now find very worrying about
the internet, that there isn't a central being or place that you can go
to to ask for something to be put right. And that sense that things
can't be censored in the evolutionary process, not in natural
evolution, natural selection.
Of course human beings can intervene
and can either sustain or damage the environment as we see currently
very strongly but probably the effects of our sustaining or damaging
are relatively slighter than we would wish to think.